Sex is often equated with intercourse, leading to the belief that if one's sexual experiences don't mirror those depicted in pornography, they're somehow inadequate. Additionally, the idea of scheduled sex is often dismissed as unnatural. These misconceptions about sex pervade our society.

Among the myriad sex myths, one of the most damaging is the notion that sexual desire should manifest as a sudden, intense urge, akin to a bolt of lightning. Those who don't experience desire in this way may feel defective. Dr. Emily Nagoski challenges this notion in her book "Come As You Are: The Surprising New Science That Will Transform Your Sex Life," particularly advocating for women who feel inadequate due to their differing experiences of desire.

However, in the context of long-term relationships, where partners may have divergent approaches to desire, issues can arise. What occurs when desires don't align temporally or methodologically? Addressing these concerns, Nagoski offers insights in her latest book, "Come Together: The Science (and Art!) of Creating Lasting Sexual Connections," which delves into maintaining sexual compatibility in enduring relationships.

I recently had a conversation with Nagoski to delve deeper into her insights. Below is an edited and condensed version of our discussion for clarity.

Ian Kerner: In “Come As You Are,” you highlighted the disparity between spontaneous desire and responsive desire. Could you elaborate on this concept?

Dr. Emily Nagoski: Certainly. Spontaneous desire suggests a sudden urge for sexual activity, while responsive desire prioritizes pleasure. Responsive desire entails experiencing sexual desire as a response to pleasure. When someone experiences responsive desire, their body reacts positively to pleasurable stimuli, triggering a desire for sexual activity.

During the period when I was writing my first book, there was a notable focus on pharmaceuticals designed to address low spontaneous desire in women, often referred to as "pink Viagra." However, it became evident to me that these medications were not addressing a medical issue but rather the misconception surrounding sexual desire. My argument centered on the idea that responsive desire is not a problem to be fixed; it's simply a different way of experiencing sexual desire. Ultimately, there is no universal norm when it comes to sexuality, and individuals can experience desire in various ways.

Kerner opened the conversation by delving into the motivation behind Nagoski's book, "Come As You Are," noting its candid exploration of her own experiences with sexuality. Nagoski responded, reflecting on the paradox that writing about sex often dampened her own desire for it. Despite being immersed in the topic professionally, she found herself disconnected from her own sexual experiences. Following the completion of her book, there was a temporary improvement in her sex life with her husband. However, this was short-lived, as her subsequent book tour took a toll on their intimacy.

Attempting to follow her own advice from the book, Nagoski tried to create an environment conducive to pleasure by physically connecting with her partner. Yet, instead of igniting desire, she found herself overwhelmed with emotion, ultimately breaking down in tears and falling asleep. This experience led her to question the efficacy of her own advice and prompted her to delve deeper into the research on sustaining a fulfilling sexual connection in long-term relationships.

Kerner highlighted desire discrepancy as a prevalent issue among couples, characterized by varying levels of sexual desire or mismatched libidos. However, Nagoski advocated for a shift in perspective, emphasizing pleasure as the central focus rather than desire. Drawing from her research, she emphasized that successful sexual experiences are rooted in pleasure, authenticity, vulnerability, and empathy, rather than solely desire.

Nagoski shared her personal struggle with aligning her mental state with her desire for sexual intimacy. Despite wanting to engage in sex, she found it difficult to reach the necessary mental and emotional state for it to be pleasurable. Stress proved to be a significant barrier, highlighting the intricate relationship between mental well-being and accessing sexual pleasure.

Kerner discusses the importance of willingness and motivation in reaching sexual pleasure, suggesting that while innate desire for sex may not always be present, overcoming everyday stressors is necessary. He introduces the concept of the "emotional floor plan," which delineates various emotional spaces and their interactions with one's sexual desires.

Nagoski elaborates on the emotional floor plan, explaining her own experience of transitioning from a stressed state to a playful one before reaching a lustful mindset. She emphasizes that each individual's emotional floor plan is unique, with some able to move directly from stress to feeling sexy, while others require intermediary emotional states such as feeling cared for. The key, she suggests, is recognizing one's typical emotional states preceding feeling sexy and engaging in activities that facilitate a mindset conducive to experiencing pleasure.

Moving on, Kerner inquires about the concept of a "third thing" in relationships. Nagoski draws inspiration from poet Donald Hall's reflections on his marriage, where he describes shared interests or focal points beyond each other as essential. She explains that this "third thing" can be any mutual interest or passion, such as children, pets, sports, music, or TV shows. When couples make their sex life a shared focal point, it becomes a collaborative endeavor and source of mutual fascination, strengthening their bond.

In a discussion, Kerner raised the issue of many individuals having been raised in households where attitudes towards sex were either non-existent or heavily negative. He highlighted the challenge of cultivating a mindset of "sex positivity" within our own relationships. Nagoski contributed to the conversation by sharing her perspective on what it means to be sex positive. She emphasized the importance of basic bodily autonomy, asserting that everyone should have the right to choose how and when they are touched, as well as how they feel about their own bodies. Nagoski suggested that this freedom is essential, as it enables individuals to feel liberated and to access pleasure more readily.